News and Comments: In the first of a series of interviews planned by UK New Citizen with political personalities to talk about immigration and integration into the UK, we talk to MICHAEL PORTILLO MP:    "There is a task to be done, mainly by the Government but partly also by the immigrants themselves, on reassurance about the wish to be part of the country in which they come and make a contribution"   Michael Portillo was happy to talk to UK New Citizen. The interview was arranged in Portcullis House, the impressive building in front of Parliament. He welcomed us with his characteristic smile and started a conversation that lasted for almost one hour, more than sufficient to evoke and learn about family memories, thoughts and the political vision of a man who is considered to be one of the most prominent figures in British politics. With his confident manner and sitting by the window overlooking Parliament's silhouette Michael Portillo spoke to UK New Citizen about immigration and immigrants. With a positive opening statement on the situation of immigrants in Britain: "I think British society is more and more cosmopolitan and international and increasingly people of different nationalities are holding positions of responsibility in Britain", he was cautious though about the possibility that Britain needs immigrants in order to continue to prosper: "I know the case is made but I am not sure it has been proven" although, he quickly added, he is willing to consider the evidence. When asked about the reason for the persistent bad image (which always seems to go hand in hand with the subject of immigration) he observes without a doubt: "The asylum system is not working and is being abused. Of course people get very concerned about that", without hesitation in bringing out into the open the hypocrisy of politicians "saying that they have a system which admits people who have a genuine claim to asylum when they know that the system is wide open to abuse. Even people that do not have a valid claim for asylum can enter and under all probability would never be asked to leave... these I think are the bases of a certain crisis of confidence among the British people on the immigration system".   -UK New Citizen: after the tragic events of 11th September the renewed debate on immigration has focused on citizenship, loyalty and belonging to the country. Multiculturalism and British Culture are the new stars in a heated debate led by the national press. Even if it is not explicit most of the times, there is one question that remains unclear: should the immigrants preserve their traditions and even their own language once they are definitely settled in the UK? And, if the answer is positive, what does this imply for the British Culture?   -Michael Portillo: I think the ideal situation is a position where people who came to this country clearly express pleasure of being in this country and the acceptance of the values of this country, but at the same time feel able to preserve their own traditions and preserve their own languages. I think some societies are quite successful in doing this. When you go to the USA and you ask people what nationality they are, they are not going to tell you they are German or Italian. Of course they are really Americans, they completely take for granted that they are Americans, they accept the values of the American society and indeed Americans of whatever ethnic background articulate those values very frequently. One other thing, I don't think we are very clear in Britain about British values, I mean we know them as having to do with tolerance, justice, free speech , democracy and freedom of choice. But we don't articulate them very clearly. And I think it is important that people that come to Britain should embrace these values, especially as many people who do come to Britain have done so precisely because of those values, because of tolerance and justice and democracy.   -UKNC: Your father was an immigrant himself. Should we consider this opinion as result of your own domestic experience? -MP: In my own case... or in my father's case, he clearly preferred to give up his family, his country, his language, and his career for the sake of living in a democracy. In the end that was more important to him than everything else. And even when he was able to go back to Spain after 1959 he had no wish to live in Spain until 1975 when it returned to democracy. And I think it is reasonable of the British people to expect that people who live here recognise and celebrate the values of this country. I think that part of this problem is that even people who haved lived here for a long time are not very good at articulating these values.   UKNC: Precisely, maybe at the moment it does not seem to be easy for the British people to express clearly what "British values" are in front of newcomers, but we think that those British born people know very well what these values are... -MP: They do not know... -UKNC: Really? That's interesting! In that case it seems that, in order to promote integration, it is necessary for the immigrants themselves to know how to express and adhere to British values; for the society, having a welcoming system already implemented so immigrants can follow that process. But, and this is a big "but", if sometimes immigrants don't understand what British values actually mean, and apparently British people do not have them so clearly defined, how then is the immigrant expected to adhere to them? -MP: Actually I believe that a society that knows and expresses its values creates an easier situation for immigrants who come to the country. My point is that the British people, the people that were here for a long time, do not know how to articulate the values of this society. It has become politically incorrect to assert what British values are. The reaction to the September the 11th is very interesting because while in the USA everyone went out and bought an American flag, the reaction in Britain was that we banned the playing of "Land of Hope and Glory" (An observation: In a publicised case this religious hymn was considered to be too nationalistic). In other words, the attack of September the 11th in Britain was regarded as a reason to be even less demonstrative of our patriotism and in the USA the reaction tended to be the opposite. I mean, people that go to USA understand perfectly well what sort of country they are going to, they want to go to that sort of country and they have no embarrassment about expressing their enthusiasm for the values of this country. Having done that, everybody is delighted that they continue to be Italian or Vietnamese, etc. And everybody celebrates a country of such diversity in its food, in its culture, in its languages, in its festivals. Everybody celebrates that because they are confident that all these people are Italian-American, Vietnamese-American, etc. -UKNC: A better social integration of immigrants into the British society is precisely what our organisation wishes to promote. We want to belong to a society that is plural, diverse, but still British. These islands were inhabited when we arrived, we knew this and we made our choice. Yet the concept of integration appears at times to contradict cherishing the ancestral culture. But, is this true? Does integration and participation into the British society necessarily mean to forget our own origins and ancestral culture? -MP: I remember in my father's case... of course he became British, of course he was interested in and understood perfectly the British democratic system. He was a participant, he was an informed voter, he knew which party he supported -he supported the Labour party- he was very much a part of what was happening in Britain. But of course he was a man who missed his country and his language, so he was part of Spanish societies in this country, literature societies, culture societies, he was also involved in Spanish political activities. It seems to me that provided people that come to this country are clear cut about their enthusiasm for the values of this country nobody is going to object that they maintain their own customs and culture. Indeed people will be delighted that they maintain their own customs and culture. And my point is I think actually Britain makes it more difficult for immigrants precisely because it is so shy about saying what the British people's values are. But if we are more expressive of that patriotism then immigrants will be more confident, they are going to have more opportunities to explain that they are really part of this society and therefore, they are going to feel relaxed. Interviews, like any conversation, have to build up till the moment when the important concepts are told. Mr Portillo gave us a clear answer about our fundamental question on integration. He seemed to be sympathetic with the difficulties that most immigrants have to face: "I understand a bit about how difficult it is for people that came to this country. And even if you want to learn the language perfectly not everyone is able to do it. It depends largely on inner skills and also the age you are when you arrive to this country. For example my father never learned the language perfectly... "Does it matter?"we asked, "Well - he said - it does from the point of view of the opportunities that are open to you. Because, actually there're many things that are very difficult without a perfect command of English". When talking about access to professional jobs Mr Portillo again went straight to the problems that immigrants have to face when establishing themselves in the UK: "Like every other country where people are coming from abroad, there are questions of linguistic ability and the recognition of qualifications. There is always work to be done establishing what is the equivalent between a qualification received in one country and the qualification system as we recognise it in this country". And probably there is still more work to do in order to promote a plural and harmonious society. He even quoted, as a strong reminder, a painful incident experienced by one of his close relatives "I still remember the day when a man came to our house to repair the gas cooker. I was only 5 years old. He and my father got into a row and the row ended with this man calling my father a bloody foreigner... For a man who was a University professor, a man who was supremely articulated and well educated, to find that somebody was calling him a bloody foreigner was a very wounding experience, one he never forgot". He makes a pause, and continues: "So I understand there are enormous barriers to overcome and maybe they can never be perfectly overcome, but I do think that deep down or anyway in a widespread way, this society is very welcoming, tolerant and receptive. Also I think there is a task to be done, actually mainly by the government but partly by the immigrants themselves on reassurance about the wish to be part of the country in which they come, and make a contribution". The interview was nearing the end. The main questions had been asked, the statements we pursued had been said. And most importantly, aided by childhood memories, dialogue and communication had been established. -MP: Let me go back to the early questions you asked about whether Britain needs immigrants. I think that, if you look into the history of the contributions made by immigrants to Britain, this has been very positive. You can see, for instance, that much of the stimulus towards enterprise and innovation has come from people who came to Britain from outside and I think that is very well understood indeed. The potential of immigration was also demonstrated in Israel, USA is also a very well established culture to take immigrants. Britain less so. Britain's commitment has been more limited, particularly limited to those who are asylum seekers. So that is why I said that I don't know whether you can make the economic case now. But what I do think is that immigration in the past has tended to provide a mayor economical stimulus and there are also many examples from abroad that immigration provides an economic stimulus. -UKNC: So why, if the effect is positive, there is permanent talk on how to restrict immigration into this country?   -MP: I think there is every reason to applaud the motivation of people who come to Britain to be economic migrants, these are the people who want to improve their life and think they can do better in Britain. The question is whether Britain is able to absorb all the people that would like to come here. The answer is obviously no because there are hundreds of millions of people who would want to come here if there were open policies. So the policy cannot be open, everybody is in agreement on that. The question then is where you draw the lines and what controls could you impose. On the whole we restrict immigration on people who come here to claim asylum. That is why earlier on I referred to some hypocrisy in politicians, because if everybody has agreed on that, then you ought to want the system to work properly. Thus the debate had formally started. This had been the first in a series of interviews planned by UK New Citizen with political personalities to talk about the subject of immigration and integration into the UK and the view that we had already secured was moreover shocking. Is this what it means to have a genuine conversation putting onto one side what is sometimes considered as political correctness? Are we, the immigrants ready to listen to this? And how much more do we need to listen to? All of a sudden I remembered my father who used to tell me that growing up did not mean doing exactly what we wanted but rather to understand reality  with all its limitations and failures.   Whilst Michael Portillo was accompanying us to the door, as we were ready to leave, it was easy to feel impressed by the modern magnificence of the building. Portraits of Heads of State adorned the walls. Baroness Thatcher's presence was imposing even from the picture frame. Is Great Britain a welcoming country? Can immigrants really integrate? Is multiculturalism the key to harmony? Or is it still necessary to seek a new model of pluralist and diverse society for Great Britain in the XXI century? I am thinking these thoughts while I descend the stairs. Michael Portillo says farewell to us.   When I feel the fresh air from the Thames I smile at these questions; the ones that were asked and the ones that were not, and the ones that many will ask upon reading this interview will probably be the ones that, many years ago, an immigrant who was born in a warmer peninsula but wounded by internal strife, asked himself when he arrived in Great Britain. I enter Westminster Tube Station. It is modern and imposing, with that air of grandeur, which makes me feel proud of the country I chose as my home. And, going back to the questions, it is certainly symbolic that the son of that same Spanish immigrant the one who as elected MP and with an impressive political career, has now sufficient authority to give some of the answers UK New Citizen was looking for. It is a symbol and an answer in itself. Maybe the clue is that the long road to be travelled not only does it exist but the journey on it has already commenced.   Sylvia Palacios     With special acknowledge to: Ms Patsy Woods (correction) Mr Debal (photographs) Back Home